After reading all the comments so far I would like to clarify a few points:
1. In general, I agree with many that I don't trust this government to do it right.
2. My observations about NZ represent the the time period 1992 to 2017. Ardern came to power late 2017 and since then Maori politics went totally crazy and woke.
3. Hate it or love it, this topic won't go away until an organic solution is found. It is like a wound in the body of any nation. We can ignore it but it will weaken Australia. It gives Australia a bad reputation in the world.
4. Solutions that come from guilt and shame will not work. There is a great difference between guilt and responsibility. Genuine good-will will go a long way.
5. Usually, the activists on any side do not represent the people. They are personally and emotionally engaged - a recipe for disaster. People need to keep a cool head and look for a win-win rather than conflict
6. My "it has to hurt" was not helpful and the wrong phrase. What I wanted to say is that it has to hurt in our hearts what happened without allocating any blame. The healing pain of deep compassion. Not only for the Aboriginies (I like that word better too), but for our forefathers too. It simply was a tradegy for everyone involved.
"4. Solutions that come from guilt and shame will not work. There is a great difference between guilt and responsibility. Genuine good-will will go a long way."
Could you explain what you mean by guilt vs responsibility?
In civilised societies we don't practice regressive tribal justice ideas like 'collective guilt' or 'ancestral guilt'. We don't punish a child for the sins of his father. We certainly don't punish random groups of people for the crimes of other people who are long dead who just happen to look a bit like them. That is regressive, and we acknowledged long ago (in the west) that it's also quite evil. Our justice systems are built around the individual. You are responsible for your behaviour; you alone will bear the consequences of it.
I appreciate that you are saying that white Australian's can be free from guilt, but in what manner are you suggesting they take "responsibility". That sounds a lot like you *are* actually calling for tribalism - collective punishment.
Re point 6:
'Justice' that seeks to punish and "hurt" people who did nothing wrong, is in my opinion NOT justice of any kind. It's tribal revenge. That's a completely different thing. I find it grotesque that we are so casually discussing it, as though it really is probably fine to "hurt" people of the 'wrong kind' [wrong tribe], and to make group judgements about who is 'good' — deserving of rights, privileges and the assumption of innocence — and who is 'bad' and can therefore even be punished for things they didn't do and had no control over.
Truly this is the opposite of post Enlightenment liberalism. I find it really depressing that we are back here again, after so much debate (and bloodshed) to pull us up out of that historical quagmire. And of course, it's usually wrapped up in feelings, and language around "equity" and "fairness" and "restoration". None of that changes what it actually is — the abandonment of liberalism and the right to be seen and treated as an individual — in favour of going back to the kind of 'justice' where we the most powerful tribe gets to decide what justice is, and who will be rewarded or punished today. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. It feels like our civilisation is falling, and not from outside attack, but because it's being dismantled from the inside by people who wish to take us backwards (albeit they call this re-introduction of tribalism "progress").
Very well put. We need to keep in mind that stuff like Utu (revenge) & Makaratta (ritual payback) was practised regularly in these cultures. Some have said the quiet bits out load & we are under no illusions they do indeed seek to punish us.
If I am brutally honest: I'd say that the absence of Utu and Makaratta among other things pertaining to Natural Justice is why Australia has so much horrible injustice resulting in the highest (mostly male) suicide rates and never-addressed injustice. This makes for an oppressive life where it is quite OK to abuse and be abused without any fear of consequences. Try half the shit that goes on here in Africa, or any Muslim society and see how far it'd get. Yes, a few females would be treated terribly but things have swung the other way here, it is fair game to make accusations that destroy males without any need of evidence and these are followed up with action: negative to the innocent and positive to the guilty, and that's only one of the obvious elephants in the room i.e. the male-female divide and role reversals and spiraling female on male domestic (and non-domestic) violence and murder.
When you break it down though it all comes down to power: sense is no longer common and people have surrendered all power and responsibility to others: butchers, politicians, lawyers, police, etc. Now the state intervenes not only into the family but ever aspect of life, and since the people have no part of the state, of course the consequences are always detrimental.
Guilt vs responsibility. Firstly, responsibility is something someone willingly takes in order to improve a dysfunctional situation. It can't be allocated. Its a personal intention to do good. It comes from a deep understanding of determinism (I wrote a lot about that in my substack). It's non-emotional, logical, even selfish in nature. If something is broken it feels good to fix it. It doesn't matter who broke it or when it was broken. It is based on the understanding that if a part of the whole suffers, the whole suffers as well. Why shall we (non-Aboriginies living on this land) fix it? Because we can and it benefits all of us. And it appears the Aboriginal people can't do it themselves. This might be due to the fact that we unconsciously boycott it, or that we try too hard and don't allow the space for them to do it themselves. How can we fix it? A simple desire and good-will of enough people goes a long way. It can be active or passive. In good-will, not based on any guilt or shame, solutions will emerge naturally. It is an extremly complex issue. No individual or "group of experts" will be smart enough. This needs the collective wisdom of the heart. As always, the ultimate answer is spiritual (and non-religous). And it is deep within our hearts.
Very interesting and considerate article, thank you. I agree it needs to hurt, it is Divine Justice. Without probably realizing it, Australiens are greatly hurting today. They've received untold experimental injections and although having peace and security compared to much of the world it is wasted and killing millions with cotton wool, suffocating slow death, zombification. I'd like to comment on the photo of art by a youngster "Voice", for those tuned to such things, this piece of art is very untraditional and perverse, it is a deviation from timeless Original Art of the Origine Peoples. It has been used to serve a purpose, and this is how deception works: the truth (Origine Art) is mixed with falsehood (and the road paved to hell with good intentions of the young artist). I don't think many will understand all I'm saying here, but I put it out there.
Following this comment, you then go on to say how many Australian's do appear to (already) be hurting. How much more "hurt" are we dishing out to people then, and in which Divine power's name are we doing that?
I'm very concerned about the vagueness of statements like "it needs to hurt, it is Divine Justice." I feel like I need to understand a whole lot more about how we've come to think that it could be either 'just' or 'divine' to extra-judicially 'hurt people'... and especially to do so in groups organised by race. And *especially* to do so when the 'hurt' [punishment] is being applied to people who manifestly committed no crimes (otherwise this would be a matter for *actual justice* to deal with, in the courts).
I feel deeply uneasy with this. How is it any different than the justifications offered for the raping & pillaging that's gone on for millenia — "I have God's [divine] permission; that other tribe sinned against us once, now we will punish all their people..."
I thought we recognised that this is evil, and that's why we built an entire system of laws and courts to protect against it ever happening again. We specifically set up a system whereby you are *innocent until proven guilty* and *you are accountable only for YOUR actions, not the actions of others*. What's being suggested seems to be the opposite of this, both in principle and in practice?
You feel that people have done no crimes. But I take a different view. To be born in a safe environment and grow up without questioning things and without taking active measures to assist those who are less fortunate, could be considered a crime from the perspective of their Creator who had given them eyes to see with, ears to hear with and grey matter between them to think with.
So you have redefined crime in a way such that literally everyone can be declared a criminal, just for existing... in a manner you deem to be insufficiently 'equitable' / servile / repentant [for their perceived privilege]. Essentially you're proposing to reverse the Enlightenment, and consider people guilty until they 'earn their grace' / recognition of their innocence.
Simply to *be born* in a safe country may be a crime, if you don't then *actively work to 'atone' for the sin of being born* (something which, needless to say, one has no control over).
This is the concept of Original Sin, with the add on of the Marxist definition of "equity". It's also the basis of racism and tribalism; judging and sorting people based on innate characteristics — things they can't change, like where and when they were born.
What you've written could have come straight from one of Marcuse's essays. These same arguments are being made again today with a topical spin:
"It's not sufficient to just *not be racist*, you have to be *actively anti-racist*"
[which means, it's not sufficient to refrain from doing a bad thing, you must become a Marxist radical and take action to implement the Marxist definition of "equity", and join us in the purges and attacks against those who are not yet sufficiently radical, until all have been converted to the new 'doctrines'].
We know very well the products of these ideas. The history of the 20th century was punctuated, repeatedly, by the fight against that particular form of 'equitable' tyranny. Wherever these ideas were taken seriously, and implemented by the State, absolute horrors followed. I would strongly warn against looking back to this time, and these values.
Well you seem to feel the need to decide what I think and paraphrase it into your own different understanding. My point is that those who think they are innocent are so by their own definition, not that of others, or even in reality. But some may feel good to be innocent and have no responsibility to correct the inherited wrongs which many others pay for.
"But some may feel good to be innocent and have no responsibility to correct the INHERITED WRONGS which many others pay for."
There it is.
Collective punishment, and inherited guilt.
I'm not telling you how to think, not at all. *I personally* think it's regressive and evil to punish a child for the sin's of the father, or punish a tribe for the actions of 1 member. If your spouse killed someone in a drink driving accident, I think it would be disgusting and immoral for their family to seek vengeance on you, if you didn't have anything to do with that. I think it would be both absurd and outrageous if someone tried to enact some form of punishment on you for a crime committed by your great great grandfather ...or someone who kinda sorta looked a bit like him.
I had a substack account shut down preventing the ability to comment anywhere, and I can't see that I made any malicious comment anywhere, so this isn't a good sign, I believe whatever you do not control (including Substack) can and will be used against you. People need to control everything, that is why big tech and big pharma and all forms of power which are not under the direct control of the masses, who have a long way to go before they can exercise their power, requires much education, e.g. into the Third Universal Theory which is all about natural order, freedom and responsibility. Substack may start out good but it is most unlikely to remain good when it comes under pressure of the usual agendas. We don't own it.
Your "simple" thinking is what used to be called "Common" sense -- long no longer common. If someone is a liar all the time year in and year out, or a thief year in and year out, why would you trust them to suddenly tell the truth one day or not to steal?
Your way you really can't easily go wrong, in fact, when you turn off the tell-lie-vision the entire plandemic did not exist. And many of us may not have been stressed, though it was hard to ignore why so many fools are running around with nappies on their faces.
If there's one good thing that came out of all that suffering (it certainly made me suffer but I've been made to suffer by these bastards for decades on end, so forced isolation and torture are nothing new to me) it is that it revealed beyond any doubt that the majority are more stupid than you could ever have dared imagine.
I talk of simple things: oxygen, health, immunity, from a common sense perspective.
Hopefully your "simple" thought process spares you a lot of stress, it would be nice if more people had such a thought process, sadly, they don't even have a "simple" one LOL.
I could barely finish reading that Markus. I’m a white NZer who grew up in an area with high Māori population also in the timeframe you’re referring to. I’m a 3rd generation NZer & descend from impoverished Irish domestic servants, an Australian convict (game poaching was his crime), Scottish Whalers, East German peasants & farriers. My brother & I were raised in NZ under ‘positive doscrmination’ & ‘revese racist’ ethnic Marxist race based policies.
We were basically raised to see ourselves as unwanted invaders & hate the colour of our own fair complexions. Policies included taking academic & sports awards off white kids & giving them to Māori kids because it would be better for their self esteem. It was stupid Commie bullshit. We saw many Māori fall for this race based favouritism hook line & sinker & get over inflated egos/entitlement. I remember a couple of people complaining at uni for not getting better grades & deciding it was ‘racist’. Some also thought they had a free pass to victimise & bully us, which they only ever did in a pack/gang.
I’m sorry but what you have said about NZ being better than ever after that reparations process is bullshit. People have gone batshit crazy in NZ & many have moved to Aust & the UK etc. to get away from NZ. Being European by birth & not branded as an ‘invader’ your whole life you don’t understand the never ending grievance industry gravy train. Lots of people don’t actually want things sorted out, they want an eternal axe to grind. Of course they are being used & this is nothing new, it’s just changed gear recently. Many don’t seem to understand that big gov & corporations don’t care about any of us.
Many Māori & Pacific people won’t take any responsibility for the endemic problems within their communities that hark back to pre settlement times. They try to blame everything on NZers of Euro/UK decent. From gangs to the horrible child abuse & death statistics. Like Aust Aboriginals it wasn’t an egalitarian utopia. You need to read out of the prescribed romanticised narrative & more broadly. That uni degree has possibly softened the truth on certain matters. Ian Wishart is a good place to start.
Very few in NZ ask the tough questions regarding what kind of awesome systems would Māori have created on their own without settlement? How would things have gone for them if the French took the NZ islands? You do know the definition of a genocide right? No one was deceived into signing the Treaty. The French & others were possibly coming & the chiefs has the wisdom & foresight which assured the survival of their people.
The ‘new generation of Māori’ look more like you & I on account of their significant Euro/UK heritage. Did you know Taiki Waititi uses his mother’s surname Cohen In Hollywood? Why would that be? Can you see the fake tan dripping off some of these activists? This rubbish has absolutely ruined NZ. NZ is a small isolated nation & things get very myopic there.
Reading between the lines on your semi romanticised view I’d take a guess you ‘married into the tribe’, as we say. After your time in NZ you probably think any distant Polynesian heritage rules out a predominantly European/UK lineage.
You sound like you almost know the self flagellating white guilt ridden Leftie mentality isn’t cool or trendy. It’s just silly & almost manifests like a mental health diagnosis such as a victim of narcissistic abuse. Many of these people don’t actually like people of Euro/UK descent & the nicer you try to be the worse it actually gets. It will never be enough.
I never did anything to anyone & neither did my family. We endured much verbal abuse & physical assaults where we grew up. I will never again be called a ‘coloniser/invader’ or allow anyone to speak to me in such terms, least of all middle class white simps to the cause of their own punishment. They are not ‘good people’, they have been psyoped. A backlash has begun in earnest & has resulted in disinterest in Māori culture/language, although thanks to the education system most my age & younger speak basic Te Reo but we are choosing not to. Many no longer care about their social problems or axe grinding & will not be gaslit by racism accusations.
It’s not the Aboriginal uprising anyone in camp No is scared of it’s the government weaponising the Voice on citizens…, you know that being used thing🤷🏼♀️. Hopefully people can see that. Many Aboriginal people aren’t even registered to vote. It’s not about them & is a UNDRIP initiative, as NZ was a UNDRIP flag ship nation.
"If it hurts the white Australians it means something. It has to hurt." Why does it have to hurt? Most white Australians I know are already hurting, cutting back on their groceries, unsure how to pay their soaring energy bills. How much are we supposed to pay towards reparations? No idea. Because they won't tell us. And surely some should hurt more than others? My husband is a many-generation Aussie, I've only lived here 20 years. We should slug him that little bit extra, don't you think?
It would be interesting to see demographic stats on what proportion of the Aus population are direct descendants of early settlers and of those who enforced white Australia policies on the Stolen Generation. My guess is less than half?
I think this is one of the main problems with attempts at reconciliation in Australia. Probably the majority of the population is so far removed from the historical context that it's not in the least clear cut as to who should pay/reconcile, and why the large proportions of Australians who have nothing to do with any of this should be involved.
That's why I never played the government's reindeer games with 'covid exemptions' etc. Nosiree just leave me out of it! Lists always preceed death camps.
Yeah it's pretty easy to forget the other half of reconciliation: forgiveness.
And the other element missing from society these days: gratitude.
Aboriginals in their original form lived to 30-40 years, had no written language, lived in squalor and sure, may have been happy and care free, but they lived day to day with no development or technology. Their purposes amounted to making it to adulthood, finding their next meal, attending the next corroboree and maybe making a family.
Now some are millionaires, mocking whitey and demanding reparations, warmly ensconced in their ivory towers.
Not an iota of gratitude to be found for their very much upgraded standard of living and length of life.
Let's say the same thing about future multiple-injected even-further genetically-modified Aussies in the future and deny them any reparations. Not forgetting official statistics show 47% cannot read and write. And alcoholism? Totally invisible as the whites drink non stop after work in the pub, go home and crash out till the next day work, the rampant much higher white alcoholism in Australia is invisible unlike those Origines you see living above the earth and under the stars in the park. Projection?
You lost me. If you're being sarcastic, great, love it, but still don't follow what you're trying to say here. I also understand what projection is, but don't understand how it applies in this instance.
The people who were jabbed 50% of them were IMO coerced into it against their will. Any reparations is going to come from other tax payers, so, IMO, no reparations are possible. That's just grim reality.
I'm not being sarcastic. Projection may not apply in this instance. No one was forced into it against their will: yes, very difficult hurdles were placed: cannot see loved ones until they die, lose job and income, and I have faced all of these consequences myself but at the end of the day I refused, and I'm unjabbed.
The point is, no one was actually forced AGAINST their will because in the end it was their decision to be jabbed against their will. I know that is a hard pill to swallow but this is the reality and today's generations young and old are exceptionally week when it comes to (moral) fibre. If everyone had said no, it would have been over in a day.
There is no one case I know of any adult actually being forced, at the end of the day, but, there were countless children that were actually forced 100% against their will and physically restrained. THEY are the ones that deserve every compensation, not the adults, and those that held them down should be appropriately punished - ignorance is no excuse for doing that, and I know many of them severely regret it now. Again the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Coercion and pressure yes and this is what needs to be accounted for an paid for with strong punishment and consequences not just for the order givers who are actually less guilty than the order followers.
There is an excellent lecture by Mark Passio on this very issue of freedom, responsibility and the order followers being MORE guilty.
Maybe 50% were willing and 50% were less willing or very much opposed, but not enough opposed to sit tight, miss saying good bye to loved ones, cut off from family for over a year, out of work, but they could have paid the price so it was a choice albeit not a fair one as I said those who coerced and bullied are guilty as are those who enabled it all - the weak order followers who injected it.
As to the poor children who had weak (and/or misinformed) parents they are of course innocent and paying the price for that. Most will want to keep passing the blame up the chain but all are guilty. I myself was guilty for not physically intervening to protect two young child from a PCR swap up the nose making them bleed, held down by three fefails, and I too made that awful choice on the probability of being imprisoned for violence when I was almost home having had to wait over a year to be reunited with family, both parents had meantime died slowly (not from coronavirus but cancers) and I could not be there as I was not allowed to move.
It was my choice to be selfish with the end result to reunite with what was left of my family rather than intervene in another random family in front of me in the queue, and I had to live with it. I later that day found the children, it was traumatic for them, they survived it. That was just one of the awful PCR "swaps" (actually it is child rape) had it been an injection I don't know if I could have restrained myself. I keep myself away from people for these reasons, the insanity and weakness is more than depressing. I don't see many people awake, as usual, it is mostly caring about something that happened to them directly.
I am a new Australian, arrived 1988 and learned about the history etc. I authentically believed about reconciliation for a long time. The reconciliation movement has been stolen by the hard political left and reoriented into black nationalism rather than genuine reconciliation. Guilt is being actively stoked to advance political objectives rather than any real forgiveness offered.
Relatedly, I have never laughed so much at the MSM crying when the Muslims voted NO as a block to gay marriage. "How could they do this when we supported them" the woke cried.
Nobody will like this, but the way I see it, true reconciliation is impossible. Why?
Because the way the original people of this country see the land & their connection to it, is totally opposite to the way the white settlers see the land. It is really 2 massively different worldviews.
Any attempts at reconciliation by those in power is, at best, lip service. It will be a continuation of the same.
However, having said that, there are solutions possible going forward, but the majority of people will definitely not like them.
The first & probably the most important solution would be to stop poisoning the land, people, wildlife, atmosphere & water. The only way to do that, in my view, is if enough people realise that all of the above are & have been deliberately poisoned by many different methods by the government & the major corporations. This includes the gene editing of living organisms.
The second is to realise that materialism & consumption is a dangerous path. This worldview has been conducive to governments & corporations & it has been promulgated endlessly through media & education. By materialism I also mean the idea that the physical explains everything. The spiritual & the understanding that we & the world are a part of a much larger unseen world or worlds should be encouraged & not suppressed.
The original peoples knew this well, but our western culture has superimposed worldviews like the commenter "Stoichastic"'s below. A classic example of misinformation that associates lack of technological advancement with squalor. What about the pristine environment the original peoples enjoyed & nurtured & managed pre settlement? Think about the fact that a culture that has no written language (as we know it) may in fact encourage brain use of memory in keeping stories alive through the oral tradition. Written language could be seen as a double edged sword.
There are many other points I could make, but I'll say this one would be the hardest for people to stomach:
The majority of people who came to this land as settlers or immigrants or refugees, in my experience of talking to the elderly, did NOT want to come here. They left behind family, friends & their homeland. Why? Usually wars/conflict & the misery & poverty induced. Note that most of these conflicts are, I believe, manufactured specifically to destroy & disperse people, so that they become tools of the so called elite, moving to other countries in order to be used as labor. I can tell you something interesting. All these elders I talk to think they came here & built this country. They think "Australia" is a great country. But what if they were really brought here to "destroy" the country while thinking they were doing the opposite. Because that is what has happened from the original peoples point of view. So, in my view, a slow repatriation, over generations (if there are any to come if & when the current eugenics program expires) back to the homelands, for those who wish it.
If one insists on so called technological solutions, then free energy devices need to be unsuppressed, plasttic eating bacteria need to be bred (not genetically engineered), hemp should probably be used for everything plastic/petrochemical based), cannabis should be used for healing (rick simpson oil in particular), other healing modalities need to be unsuppressed too. Let healers heal without fear of punishment, vaccines should never be mandated (they are poison, ALL of them, weakening people, it's the weaponisation of homeopathic principles), any artificial weather manipulation needs to be halted.
Basically far too many others to list, but technology could be used carefully & wisely, but currently it is being weaponised against humans.
"A classic example of misinformation that associates lack of technological advancement with squalor."
Incorrect. Lack of technological advancement is not associated with squalor.
What is associated with squalor:
* sitting in the dirt
* eating with your fingers
* eating witchetty grubs raw
* kids walking around naked
* flies constantly walking all over your face
* "medicine" man healers
* no running water
* no sanitation
* no desire to improve yourself
You say "the pristine environment the original peoples enjoyed & nurtured & managed" based on what? On people telling you they managed it?
Seriously?
They can't write anything down and out of nowhere, there's a people who can communicate verbally without losing any signal integrity? Seriously?
Ever played Chinese whispers before? Methinks you have drunk the koolaid and not actually tried to replicate what you believe happened here.
Oh good grief "free energy devices need to be unsuppressed".
No wonder you believe Aboriginals, of all the people that ever lived on the planet, could escape the reality of entropy in verbal communication. You're a believer in fantasy and a denier of physics.
What is your understanding of pre-settlement life on this continent? Where or from whom did you learn it from? I am asking this in the spirit of curiosity, not aggressively.
Have you read Elkin's Aboriginal Men Of High Degree? What about Jan Roberts' From Massacred to Mining? Pascoe's Dark Emu (despite the aggressive attempts to deligitimize Pascoe since the books publication) or Gammage's The Biggest Estate on Earth? What about the recent Thames & Hudson issues of several small books like Plants, Country, Astronomy detailing the knowledge within first nations people?
As for the rest of your post, it is typical of so called skeptics, who in reality are anything but.
No curiosity? Miles Mathis has rewritten "physics" by going back (even to Euclid) & correcting underlying assumptions. His "model" of how the universe works fills in many of the gaps of modern establishment physics.
Patrick Kelly's free energy site lists many small projects that can supply "free energy".
If you are waiting for the mainstream to spoon feed you true information & knowledge I'm afraid it isn't going to happen. They are just leading mankind down the wrong path, & people like yourself don't realise it.
What a beautiful exposition of great thought and truth, refreshing to read among the noise which is easy to filter out and helps such gems to stand out in comparison :-)
An easy solution to the immigration problem -- and it is a huge problem, not just in the past but ongoing, whereby many migrate to Australia so that they can abuse people and get away with it not only those who do migrate for reasons you mentioned such as escaping war, injustice... and as I can testify to with many witnesses horribly destroyed by life in Australia actually went from the frying pan into the fire...
is if Originals were in charge of immigration. They'd do interviews and ask WHY do you wish to come to Australia? What will you contribute to society? What do you know of its history and problems?
At the very least. Unlike the current situation where no interview takes place, only DNA-mining, and all that is required is a fat bank account.
Think of the police force (policy enforcers). If they were really about the safety and protection of good citizens, they'd have a psychological exam that is not, like the current one, designed to weed out empathetic people and pass through order-followers, but to weed out psychopaths and only pass through good character and moral fibre.
It's no mystery that the government and its power structures, based on falsehood and ulterior objectives as you said to destroy life in its optimum form, is the enemy thus of reality based people.
What is the optimum form of life on this planet? It would entail living on the land and sea, in harmony with the land, and while there would be bartering and exchanges and trade there would not be middle men, banks, digital/paper/fiat money, supermarkets, hoarding, lawyers, police, mercenaries (state soldiers), modified and controlled foods and too-high technology, everything would be under the control and balance of the individual, family, tribe...
and the fact that the Originals managed to do this for countless thousands of generations, while the immigrants could not do it even for a single generation but yet feel superior and entitled to make up nonsense about such an amazing people, culture and long history, says it all.
Not one of us alive now are responsible. Do the Germans hand over some of their land and money to the Jews every year? It is such a stupid argument. We treat the aborigines today like zoo animals. Maybe if we start treating them as human beings just like us their communities would be more likely to thrive. None of us are directly responsible for what happened and the events should be seen in the historical context of what was a much more violent and brutal era.
But I cannot workout why we do nothing about the abuse so many aboriginal children face in their own community now in 2023. Until we are brave enough to tackle that issue there is little hope to improve the wellbeing of those in aboriginal townships and for that fact we are all guilty. The voice will not make the slightest bit of difference.
Rebekah, the stolen generation has been debunked by government enquiries. Children were taken because of abuse in each home, not because of a systematic program.
I had a teacher who was one of that generation. He was completely traumatised and broken from his experience. He told us stories you shouldn't tell children, then had a breakdown and never returned. The trauma (I know that word is overused, but I mean it in its fullness here) was visceral. Whatever happened to him, it was very bad.
I had a similar experience actually (not me but listening to a story). As you say, whatever happened, it was bad. I don't think there were any winners. Similar to the kids who came from England to the care homes.
Indeed, how can they be involved in such a process when they know nothing about it, so to speak. This is why the liberal female Guardian-reading do-gooder is paving the road to hell even if not with wholly good intentions. What was the R (symbol an R from a branding iron as you would brand cattle and slaves with) campaign and who funded it? And of course the real one that all thinking and caring Origines that I spoke with about all this supported: SOVEREIGNTY, was not on the table and never promoted. I say it is a good thing the Originals are not in the Constitution and have (until some traitors recently) not been in Parliament. Another observation: culture. If you take ANY culture in the world aside from those on a small island off India that have no contact with non-civilisation, they always have at least some things in common culturally speaking. Not so between the Anglo-Saxon (generally non-culture, another big discussion area) and the Originals. They have no common values that overlap when it comes to the majority of things. And I speak of the Originals who keep to their culture and the average Aussie. Hence the only solution would be a compromise such as a 7th state as proposed by some, and people's power direct democracy where each community (and I don't mean only two, there could be thousands of communities of all types) takes their own power and responsibility for decisions and implementing them, in short, a Panarchy.
I am really tired of being told that I have to be guilty of past sins not even perpetrated by my ancestors and even if they were then I am still not responsible for the sins of others and the past. I am only responsible for myself and my sins before God.
As far as I can see aboriginals - not First Nations- have exactly the same opportunities as the rest of us but the activists want to keep sone aboriginals as victims. It suits their narrative. Billions are spent obviously badly so how is that our fault?
The language, style and syntax doesn't seem to match that of someone who was educated in Germany and has English as a second language. However, that's another argument. I know nothing of the NZ experience so cannot comment on that, but I do know about the experiences here in my country. Firstly my Aboriginal mate absolutely hates the term first nation's and rebukes anyone who uses it. It's bloody Canadian, do I look like an Indian? he says. Secondly, the intentions of Phillip and subsequent Governors was to peacefully settle the land. The highlighted "massacres" were all the consequences of atrocities that isolated and defenceless settlers and explorers suffered. Those facts are well documented. Rodney Liddells paper, Cape York Savage Frontier, details multiple events that were unprovoked attacks and massacres of shipwrecked seamen and explorers in North Queensland. The premise by the author that there was 200+ years of abuse is entirely unfounded. Just another propagation of the lies that even Minister Birney has been found to lie about. The author is the problem because he cherry picks his truths. He misidentified some sort of collective guilt that this country has towards the disparit Aboriginal population. We have no guilt. Not one person I know living today was responsible for any of this. Yet here we are as a country pouring billions in to just 3% of our population because they have been indoctrinated that they are victims, that they deserve everything and the taxpayers owe owe owe.
As I commented on Mark's original comment, there are 2 issues being confused in the Voice debate:
1) why do we need to change the Australian Constitution in order to help the indigenous people?
2) the issue of reparations/assistance/healing, in light of the fact that their cultures, their social structure, and their way of life was pretty much destroyed by the European settlers/invaders.
The mainstream narrative is that if you don't agree with this proposed change to our Constitution then you are a racist and generally mean and selfist person - which is patently not true.
The issue of reparations has not been overtly mentioned - because if it were, there would be an overwhelming "NO" from the referendum.
There are all sorts of sinister possibilities inherent in what is being proposed by the Voice advocates (and the fact that they dismiss all questions about details of implementation, etc is even more sinister, IMO). Meanwhile, all those sanctimonious Voice advocates are silent about issues such as the destruction of the traditional lands of the Wangan & Jagalingou people by Adani, in northwest Queensland.
And please note, the Qld Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk sold out and did nothing to limit the Adani project, because jobs. And votes.
There has been a heap of money poured into indigenous projects, most of it disappearing into the pockets of the people running them (as happened with ATSIC - an organisation set up with similar good intentions, maybe better intentions in fact, run by indigenous people for the benefit of Aborginal and Torres Strait Islander people).
I'm in no way denying that these people have suffered terribly, and their current predicament is the result of systematic abuse and destruction of their culture. But what to do about it?
Nothing I have heard about the proposed Voice leads me to believe that it will constructively address these issues, and the fact that people like Jacinta Price are against it is enough for me.
Why do you believe in systematic abuse and destruction of their culture? Do you have evidence outside of abc/sbs?
The stolen generation was an abc myth, since debunked. Early settlers documented the ways of the aboriginals and their treatment of women and children and it was quite unbelievable (not in a good way). The books are on archive.org.
Yes, I do have evidence. I've worked with aboriginal Australians both as colleagues and as clients, and heard stories that are about understanding and healing, not continuing the victim game.
And no, I am not going to try to convince you, because I've learned from the past 3 years not to waste my energy trying to convince someone whose mind is already made up.
However, I agree with you that we shouldn't be uncritically glorifying the customs and ways of life of aboriginal people.
Approximately 55% of the Australian landmass is now in Aboriginal hands and the government spends ~$ 39 billion on indigenous affairs every year. How much more do the activists want. To change our constitution is unwarranted. A NO from me.
If the voice was about true reconciliation and restoration it would be widely supported but many see through it...there is literally nothing we can trust from our governments these days be it covid, climate chains, or this - its always an emotive argument built on false unbalance narratives .....sad but the writer mentions Marxism many times for good reason......I know many indigenous Christians who do not want the voice and realise true reconciliation is a joint process of lifting up one another together...there is still much to be done for sure but I doubt the voice will do it......... I recently visited Haast Bluff NT where the local indigenous community have overseen the building of a huge cross - they are amazing people but still caught in a cultural vortex that the land they live on cannot provide the income and jobs to sustain them - it isn't any one person fault, it simply the rainfall.....Haast Bluff community commemorate 4 Lutheran evangelists who travelled the area in 1920s and brought the gospel to them - they no longer live in fear of payback when someone does wrong - but that is not the culture of many communities still today -
My great grandfather on one side, left Ireland to come here because the potato famine guttered his business in Ireland 1852.. he was an economic refugee like so many who have come more recently....I also have one ancestor who was on the First Fleet - and British heritage and a free man- he was barely 20 when he arrived and grew up served in the courts with Samuel Marsden - but how many were sent there as unwilling convicts - victims themselves? .....Irish and British have a tortured history too but my blood has both ... there is never one group who are all bad - look at the freedom fighter today they who want good, and live side by side with those who are deceived and those who intentionally want tyranny...... and there in lies the solution seek justice mercy for all but not preference and injustice...we have all the constitutional facilities to do that..
I watched the Last Daughter last week - it is so compelling and so sad but it is also a true story of love and reconciliation. I know many white who were adopted and there mothers often forced to give up children to adoption by social pressures ( or those forced to abort) back then and then we see the the child sex trade to day that the Sound of Freedom that is just released in the USA has highlighted - tyranny and evil know no borders and as I watched the Last Daughter I could not help think of how many tragedies our government have perpetrated on people and still do ......the voice that this parliament needs to hear is the voice of the Holy Spirit none other .....
“one of them the famous Tāme Iti, who was also a Māori artist. He later would become an international celebrity flown around the world by wealthy supporters.”
This tells you a lot about most so called activists. Supported & encouraged by wealthy donors, because it suits them.
“A few years later, the NZ government decided to fully compensate and settle all historical grievances with Māori for good. White New Zealanders were very wary and anxious about it at the time. Basically, over a period of about 20 years, every iwi (tribe) could lodge a claim of what was stolen from them, dating back to the first white people arriving. They were all compensated. It cost billions of dollars.”
Similar to compensation schemes or legislation in Australia like Mabo/Native Title, they are not what they appear to be. A trojan horse of sorts, assimilating & destroying the original peoples customs & traditions whilst appearing to be fair.
“and a new proud, confident, and well-educated Māori generation prospered, who see themselves as equal and respected and part of a united New Zealand.”
Loss of knowledge & wisdom of original peoples, educated to a worldview endorsed by UN SDG, WEF & others.
“But what is abundantly clear is that the situation can't be compared to the Māori situation. The history and character of the two peoples are vastly different.”
It can, the goal of both governments is the same. Control, access to resources for corporations.
“trickery and deceit”
Yes, still ongoing. There are many forms. Wolves in sheeps clothing.
Yup … this is a compelling read and likely indicative of the thoughts and emotions of the majority of the country regardless of ethnic background. How about treating aboriginal people as equals and not as pets or a permanent victim class perpetually deserving of white man’s guilt and assistance? How about not abusing the bigotry of low expectations, of obliging or encouraging the notion of personal responsibility and/or expecting the most basic of participation to modern standards of living typical of our extremely diverse cultural tapestry?
There is a common enemy of all Australians, white and brown, and that is Homo Consensus, the affluent, liberal, white, gullible majority, who gleefully sign up to every bloody “cause” in the name of doing the right thing, but who lack the basic common sense and pragmatism that should inform their decision-making.
Why would you assume that a German represents most NZers? Certainly not South Islanders. I actually had no idea about the feeling of menace and physical threat white people feel in the North island. No wonder he's so happy to appease Maori demands. How many "final" rounds of reparations does it make now?
You write, "compelling reading indicative of most Aussies" about an article where someone writes "PAY THEM MONEY it makes it all better".
As an Aussie I completely disagree. Not compelling at all. Bullshit even.
Here's a quote from the article:
"However, the basic principle of decency still applies. It wasn't right how First Nations people were treated for centuries. And acknowledgment and reparations do go a long way to normalise the relationship, as shown in NZ. It is not good for modern-day Australians to live with this guilt.
How to undo this? I honestly don't know. Throw money at them? Give the land back? I believe some of that has to happen. The value lies not so much in the riches but in the sacrifice. If it hurts the white Australians it means something. It has to hurt. And it is still a tiny fraction of the hurt that was dished out over centuries."
Giving the land back and paying them money is his "solution" that you find a "compelling read", apparently.
Then contradict yourself by writing "don't treat them as pets / victims", which is exactly what needs to happen to justify "PAY THEM MONEY to make it all better".
But who is treating them as pets? Not me. Are you? And if you are, why? And if you aren't, then who is?
Interesting that you should suggest that the problem in NZ was 'Marxist Labour Party' upsetting the scene, and then to imply that 'Europeans should give until it hurts' in Australia. You seem to have an errant view of what Marxism actually is, because that's the bowels of it. i.e. Living for others for inexplicable or unqualified reasons, whether rationalised or not. It is fascism as well. It is any form of collectivism, and the historical foundations for Maori are collectivist. The exception is your aspirational friends who really identify with Europeans.
Thank you Rebecca for touching this difficult and painful topic and starting a honest conversation about it. People feel safe here to express their views from different perspectives in a respectful way which is rare these days. I tried to cross-post it but couldn't manage. Is it enabled for your posts?
Hi Markus, I agree, I really appreciate the quality of discussion on this platform. Strange, I checked and the cross-post function is enabled on this post...
I am not sure if incuding Aboriginals in the constitution will actually make any material difference to the plight of the Aboriginal people. But that is what we should do - work out what would help because many of them are such terribly broken people. It would be great to have an Australian success story like that of New Zealand's.
That's not the purpose of the voice. Do you honestly think politicians care about the welfare of anyone outside of their own families? This is about Blackrock acquiring land in Australia. A large proportion of land in NZ is now owned by foreign companies. That's Australia's future under the voice.
1. The government don't give a sh*t about you. They do not care if you live or die. In some cases they may prefer the latter, it may be more convenient for them.
2. Corporations *most certainly* don't give a sh*t about you. In fact the only thing that stops them actually harming or killing people for profit is the courts. The check on Moral Hazard is Financial Hazard — the risk of being sued into oblivion, if they go too far in their ravenous pursuit of money.
Work backwards from there, incorporating these two truths into all your decision making, and you'll be much better off.
Regarding point 2, now the govt & corporations are starting to merge (as per the WEF and UN plans for a world built around 'Public / Private Partnerships' ...aka the merger of State and Private Capital... aka a dictionary definition of fascism). That is extremely dangerous because it removes the financial hazard mechanism that we rely on to keep some of the worst corporate behaviour in check.
Note what happened in a recent example — the Covid vaccines. Govt had closed door meetings with manufacturer lobbyists (or people such as Gates), and then signed contracts placing bulk orders, handing over billions to the drug makers, and also giving them full liability from legal consequences for any harms. At that point, what was the business incentive for making a safe product? ...there wasn't one. The only remaining incentive was to be the first to market, the first to deliver on the contract, and try for another payday. As a result of that, we saw astonishing waste, unprecedented levels of coercion, and these appear to be very clearly the most *unsafe* vaccines ever mass administered to the public. None of that should be surprising; we removed the mechanisms that act as safety valves for the public, and instead operated under a fascist model. So going forward, I would argue that we need to be much, much more vigilant about whatever govt or corporations are pushing, as they're actively removing checks and balances.
After reading all the comments so far I would like to clarify a few points:
1. In general, I agree with many that I don't trust this government to do it right.
2. My observations about NZ represent the the time period 1992 to 2017. Ardern came to power late 2017 and since then Maori politics went totally crazy and woke.
3. Hate it or love it, this topic won't go away until an organic solution is found. It is like a wound in the body of any nation. We can ignore it but it will weaken Australia. It gives Australia a bad reputation in the world.
4. Solutions that come from guilt and shame will not work. There is a great difference between guilt and responsibility. Genuine good-will will go a long way.
5. Usually, the activists on any side do not represent the people. They are personally and emotionally engaged - a recipe for disaster. People need to keep a cool head and look for a win-win rather than conflict
6. My "it has to hurt" was not helpful and the wrong phrase. What I wanted to say is that it has to hurt in our hearts what happened without allocating any blame. The healing pain of deep compassion. Not only for the Aboriginies (I like that word better too), but for our forefathers too. It simply was a tradegy for everyone involved.
"4. Solutions that come from guilt and shame will not work. There is a great difference between guilt and responsibility. Genuine good-will will go a long way."
Could you explain what you mean by guilt vs responsibility?
In civilised societies we don't practice regressive tribal justice ideas like 'collective guilt' or 'ancestral guilt'. We don't punish a child for the sins of his father. We certainly don't punish random groups of people for the crimes of other people who are long dead who just happen to look a bit like them. That is regressive, and we acknowledged long ago (in the west) that it's also quite evil. Our justice systems are built around the individual. You are responsible for your behaviour; you alone will bear the consequences of it.
I appreciate that you are saying that white Australian's can be free from guilt, but in what manner are you suggesting they take "responsibility". That sounds a lot like you *are* actually calling for tribalism - collective punishment.
Re point 6:
'Justice' that seeks to punish and "hurt" people who did nothing wrong, is in my opinion NOT justice of any kind. It's tribal revenge. That's a completely different thing. I find it grotesque that we are so casually discussing it, as though it really is probably fine to "hurt" people of the 'wrong kind' [wrong tribe], and to make group judgements about who is 'good' — deserving of rights, privileges and the assumption of innocence — and who is 'bad' and can therefore even be punished for things they didn't do and had no control over.
Truly this is the opposite of post Enlightenment liberalism. I find it really depressing that we are back here again, after so much debate (and bloodshed) to pull us up out of that historical quagmire. And of course, it's usually wrapped up in feelings, and language around "equity" and "fairness" and "restoration". None of that changes what it actually is — the abandonment of liberalism and the right to be seen and treated as an individual — in favour of going back to the kind of 'justice' where we the most powerful tribe gets to decide what justice is, and who will be rewarded or punished today. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. It feels like our civilisation is falling, and not from outside attack, but because it's being dismantled from the inside by people who wish to take us backwards (albeit they call this re-introduction of tribalism "progress").
Very well put. We need to keep in mind that stuff like Utu (revenge) & Makaratta (ritual payback) was practised regularly in these cultures. Some have said the quiet bits out load & we are under no illusions they do indeed seek to punish us.
If I am brutally honest: I'd say that the absence of Utu and Makaratta among other things pertaining to Natural Justice is why Australia has so much horrible injustice resulting in the highest (mostly male) suicide rates and never-addressed injustice. This makes for an oppressive life where it is quite OK to abuse and be abused without any fear of consequences. Try half the shit that goes on here in Africa, or any Muslim society and see how far it'd get. Yes, a few females would be treated terribly but things have swung the other way here, it is fair game to make accusations that destroy males without any need of evidence and these are followed up with action: negative to the innocent and positive to the guilty, and that's only one of the obvious elephants in the room i.e. the male-female divide and role reversals and spiraling female on male domestic (and non-domestic) violence and murder.
When you break it down though it all comes down to power: sense is no longer common and people have surrendered all power and responsibility to others: butchers, politicians, lawyers, police, etc. Now the state intervenes not only into the family but ever aspect of life, and since the people have no part of the state, of course the consequences are always detrimental.
Guilt vs responsibility. Firstly, responsibility is something someone willingly takes in order to improve a dysfunctional situation. It can't be allocated. Its a personal intention to do good. It comes from a deep understanding of determinism (I wrote a lot about that in my substack). It's non-emotional, logical, even selfish in nature. If something is broken it feels good to fix it. It doesn't matter who broke it or when it was broken. It is based on the understanding that if a part of the whole suffers, the whole suffers as well. Why shall we (non-Aboriginies living on this land) fix it? Because we can and it benefits all of us. And it appears the Aboriginal people can't do it themselves. This might be due to the fact that we unconsciously boycott it, or that we try too hard and don't allow the space for them to do it themselves. How can we fix it? A simple desire and good-will of enough people goes a long way. It can be active or passive. In good-will, not based on any guilt or shame, solutions will emerge naturally. It is an extremly complex issue. No individual or "group of experts" will be smart enough. This needs the collective wisdom of the heart. As always, the ultimate answer is spiritual (and non-religous). And it is deep within our hearts.
Very interesting and considerate article, thank you. I agree it needs to hurt, it is Divine Justice. Without probably realizing it, Australiens are greatly hurting today. They've received untold experimental injections and although having peace and security compared to much of the world it is wasted and killing millions with cotton wool, suffocating slow death, zombification. I'd like to comment on the photo of art by a youngster "Voice", for those tuned to such things, this piece of art is very untraditional and perverse, it is a deviation from timeless Original Art of the Origine Peoples. It has been used to serve a purpose, and this is how deception works: the truth (Origine Art) is mixed with falsehood (and the road paved to hell with good intentions of the young artist). I don't think many will understand all I'm saying here, but I put it out there.
"I agree it needs to hurt, it is Divine Justice."
Following this comment, you then go on to say how many Australian's do appear to (already) be hurting. How much more "hurt" are we dishing out to people then, and in which Divine power's name are we doing that?
I'm very concerned about the vagueness of statements like "it needs to hurt, it is Divine Justice." I feel like I need to understand a whole lot more about how we've come to think that it could be either 'just' or 'divine' to extra-judicially 'hurt people'... and especially to do so in groups organised by race. And *especially* to do so when the 'hurt' [punishment] is being applied to people who manifestly committed no crimes (otherwise this would be a matter for *actual justice* to deal with, in the courts).
I feel deeply uneasy with this. How is it any different than the justifications offered for the raping & pillaging that's gone on for millenia — "I have God's [divine] permission; that other tribe sinned against us once, now we will punish all their people..."
I thought we recognised that this is evil, and that's why we built an entire system of laws and courts to protect against it ever happening again. We specifically set up a system whereby you are *innocent until proven guilty* and *you are accountable only for YOUR actions, not the actions of others*. What's being suggested seems to be the opposite of this, both in principle and in practice?
You feel that people have done no crimes. But I take a different view. To be born in a safe environment and grow up without questioning things and without taking active measures to assist those who are less fortunate, could be considered a crime from the perspective of their Creator who had given them eyes to see with, ears to hear with and grey matter between them to think with.
Oh wow.
So you have redefined crime in a way such that literally everyone can be declared a criminal, just for existing... in a manner you deem to be insufficiently 'equitable' / servile / repentant [for their perceived privilege]. Essentially you're proposing to reverse the Enlightenment, and consider people guilty until they 'earn their grace' / recognition of their innocence.
Simply to *be born* in a safe country may be a crime, if you don't then *actively work to 'atone' for the sin of being born* (something which, needless to say, one has no control over).
This is the concept of Original Sin, with the add on of the Marxist definition of "equity". It's also the basis of racism and tribalism; judging and sorting people based on innate characteristics — things they can't change, like where and when they were born.
What you've written could have come straight from one of Marcuse's essays. These same arguments are being made again today with a topical spin:
"It's not sufficient to just *not be racist*, you have to be *actively anti-racist*"
[which means, it's not sufficient to refrain from doing a bad thing, you must become a Marxist radical and take action to implement the Marxist definition of "equity", and join us in the purges and attacks against those who are not yet sufficiently radical, until all have been converted to the new 'doctrines'].
We know very well the products of these ideas. The history of the 20th century was punctuated, repeatedly, by the fight against that particular form of 'equitable' tyranny. Wherever these ideas were taken seriously, and implemented by the State, absolute horrors followed. I would strongly warn against looking back to this time, and these values.
Well you seem to feel the need to decide what I think and paraphrase it into your own different understanding. My point is that those who think they are innocent are so by their own definition, not that of others, or even in reality. But some may feel good to be innocent and have no responsibility to correct the inherited wrongs which many others pay for.
"But some may feel good to be innocent and have no responsibility to correct the INHERITED WRONGS which many others pay for."
There it is.
Collective punishment, and inherited guilt.
I'm not telling you how to think, not at all. *I personally* think it's regressive and evil to punish a child for the sin's of the father, or punish a tribe for the actions of 1 member. If your spouse killed someone in a drink driving accident, I think it would be disgusting and immoral for their family to seek vengeance on you, if you didn't have anything to do with that. I think it would be both absurd and outrageous if someone tried to enact some form of punishment on you for a crime committed by your great great grandfather ...or someone who kinda sorta looked a bit like him.
That's my view.
I have a very simple thought process: if it’s being pushed by mainstream media, I’m against it. This way I’m correct most of the time.
100 percent. When you’ve got Pfizer Australia backing it also you know something is not right
https://www.instagram.com/p/CsFw1fUOjnQ/?igshid=MTIzZWMxMTBkOA==
And of course, comments (criticism) are turned off!
I had a substack account shut down preventing the ability to comment anywhere, and I can't see that I made any malicious comment anywhere, so this isn't a good sign, I believe whatever you do not control (including Substack) can and will be used against you. People need to control everything, that is why big tech and big pharma and all forms of power which are not under the direct control of the masses, who have a long way to go before they can exercise their power, requires much education, e.g. into the Third Universal Theory which is all about natural order, freedom and responsibility. Substack may start out good but it is most unlikely to remain good when it comes under pressure of the usual agendas. We don't own it.
Your "simple" thinking is what used to be called "Common" sense -- long no longer common. If someone is a liar all the time year in and year out, or a thief year in and year out, why would you trust them to suddenly tell the truth one day or not to steal?
Your way you really can't easily go wrong, in fact, when you turn off the tell-lie-vision the entire plandemic did not exist. And many of us may not have been stressed, though it was hard to ignore why so many fools are running around with nappies on their faces.
If there's one good thing that came out of all that suffering (it certainly made me suffer but I've been made to suffer by these bastards for decades on end, so forced isolation and torture are nothing new to me) it is that it revealed beyond any doubt that the majority are more stupid than you could ever have dared imagine.
I talk of simple things: oxygen, health, immunity, from a common sense perspective.
Hopefully your "simple" thought process spares you a lot of stress, it would be nice if more people had such a thought process, sadly, they don't even have a "simple" one LOL.
I could barely finish reading that Markus. I’m a white NZer who grew up in an area with high Māori population also in the timeframe you’re referring to. I’m a 3rd generation NZer & descend from impoverished Irish domestic servants, an Australian convict (game poaching was his crime), Scottish Whalers, East German peasants & farriers. My brother & I were raised in NZ under ‘positive doscrmination’ & ‘revese racist’ ethnic Marxist race based policies.
We were basically raised to see ourselves as unwanted invaders & hate the colour of our own fair complexions. Policies included taking academic & sports awards off white kids & giving them to Māori kids because it would be better for their self esteem. It was stupid Commie bullshit. We saw many Māori fall for this race based favouritism hook line & sinker & get over inflated egos/entitlement. I remember a couple of people complaining at uni for not getting better grades & deciding it was ‘racist’. Some also thought they had a free pass to victimise & bully us, which they only ever did in a pack/gang.
I’m sorry but what you have said about NZ being better than ever after that reparations process is bullshit. People have gone batshit crazy in NZ & many have moved to Aust & the UK etc. to get away from NZ. Being European by birth & not branded as an ‘invader’ your whole life you don’t understand the never ending grievance industry gravy train. Lots of people don’t actually want things sorted out, they want an eternal axe to grind. Of course they are being used & this is nothing new, it’s just changed gear recently. Many don’t seem to understand that big gov & corporations don’t care about any of us.
Many Māori & Pacific people won’t take any responsibility for the endemic problems within their communities that hark back to pre settlement times. They try to blame everything on NZers of Euro/UK decent. From gangs to the horrible child abuse & death statistics. Like Aust Aboriginals it wasn’t an egalitarian utopia. You need to read out of the prescribed romanticised narrative & more broadly. That uni degree has possibly softened the truth on certain matters. Ian Wishart is a good place to start.
Very few in NZ ask the tough questions regarding what kind of awesome systems would Māori have created on their own without settlement? How would things have gone for them if the French took the NZ islands? You do know the definition of a genocide right? No one was deceived into signing the Treaty. The French & others were possibly coming & the chiefs has the wisdom & foresight which assured the survival of their people.
The ‘new generation of Māori’ look more like you & I on account of their significant Euro/UK heritage. Did you know Taiki Waititi uses his mother’s surname Cohen In Hollywood? Why would that be? Can you see the fake tan dripping off some of these activists? This rubbish has absolutely ruined NZ. NZ is a small isolated nation & things get very myopic there.
Reading between the lines on your semi romanticised view I’d take a guess you ‘married into the tribe’, as we say. After your time in NZ you probably think any distant Polynesian heritage rules out a predominantly European/UK lineage.
You sound like you almost know the self flagellating white guilt ridden Leftie mentality isn’t cool or trendy. It’s just silly & almost manifests like a mental health diagnosis such as a victim of narcissistic abuse. Many of these people don’t actually like people of Euro/UK descent & the nicer you try to be the worse it actually gets. It will never be enough.
I never did anything to anyone & neither did my family. We endured much verbal abuse & physical assaults where we grew up. I will never again be called a ‘coloniser/invader’ or allow anyone to speak to me in such terms, least of all middle class white simps to the cause of their own punishment. They are not ‘good people’, they have been psyoped. A backlash has begun in earnest & has resulted in disinterest in Māori culture/language, although thanks to the education system most my age & younger speak basic Te Reo but we are choosing not to. Many no longer care about their social problems or axe grinding & will not be gaslit by racism accusations.
It’s not the Aboriginal uprising anyone in camp No is scared of it’s the government weaponising the Voice on citizens…, you know that being used thing🤷🏼♀️. Hopefully people can see that. Many Aboriginal people aren’t even registered to vote. It’s not about them & is a UNDRIP initiative, as NZ was a UNDRIP flag ship nation.
#VoteNoAustralia #VoteNoToTheVoice
"It’s not the Aboriginal uprising anyone in camp No is scared of it’s the government weaponising the Voice on citizens..."
I think most people leaning towards NO would agree with that.
Thanks for sharing your experience and perspective.
Hear hear.
"If it hurts the white Australians it means something. It has to hurt." Why does it have to hurt? Most white Australians I know are already hurting, cutting back on their groceries, unsure how to pay their soaring energy bills. How much are we supposed to pay towards reparations? No idea. Because they won't tell us. And surely some should hurt more than others? My husband is a many-generation Aussie, I've only lived here 20 years. We should slug him that little bit extra, don't you think?
It would be interesting to see demographic stats on what proportion of the Aus population are direct descendants of early settlers and of those who enforced white Australia policies on the Stolen Generation. My guess is less than half?
I think this is one of the main problems with attempts at reconciliation in Australia. Probably the majority of the population is so far removed from the historical context that it's not in the least clear cut as to who should pay/reconcile, and why the large proportions of Australians who have nothing to do with any of this should be involved.
Attempts at reconciliation? We are reconciled. We said sorry and we keep saying sorry! It is never enough.
I would be thrilled if the government apologised to the unvaccinated. I would be a one-person parade, woot wooting down the high street.
Two person, I'm coming.
<Admiral Ackbar voice>
It's a trap!
</Admiral Ackbar voice>
100% (genuinely laughing out loud).
That's why I never played the government's reindeer games with 'covid exemptions' etc. Nosiree just leave me out of it! Lists always preceed death camps.
Yeah it's pretty easy to forget the other half of reconciliation: forgiveness.
And the other element missing from society these days: gratitude.
Aboriginals in their original form lived to 30-40 years, had no written language, lived in squalor and sure, may have been happy and care free, but they lived day to day with no development or technology. Their purposes amounted to making it to adulthood, finding their next meal, attending the next corroboree and maybe making a family.
Now some are millionaires, mocking whitey and demanding reparations, warmly ensconced in their ivory towers.
Not an iota of gratitude to be found for their very much upgraded standard of living and length of life.
Let's say the same thing about future multiple-injected even-further genetically-modified Aussies in the future and deny them any reparations. Not forgetting official statistics show 47% cannot read and write. And alcoholism? Totally invisible as the whites drink non stop after work in the pub, go home and crash out till the next day work, the rampant much higher white alcoholism in Australia is invisible unlike those Origines you see living above the earth and under the stars in the park. Projection?
You lost me. If you're being sarcastic, great, love it, but still don't follow what you're trying to say here. I also understand what projection is, but don't understand how it applies in this instance.
The people who were jabbed 50% of them were IMO coerced into it against their will. Any reparations is going to come from other tax payers, so, IMO, no reparations are possible. That's just grim reality.
I'm not being sarcastic. Projection may not apply in this instance. No one was forced into it against their will: yes, very difficult hurdles were placed: cannot see loved ones until they die, lose job and income, and I have faced all of these consequences myself but at the end of the day I refused, and I'm unjabbed.
The point is, no one was actually forced AGAINST their will because in the end it was their decision to be jabbed against their will. I know that is a hard pill to swallow but this is the reality and today's generations young and old are exceptionally week when it comes to (moral) fibre. If everyone had said no, it would have been over in a day.
There is no one case I know of any adult actually being forced, at the end of the day, but, there were countless children that were actually forced 100% against their will and physically restrained. THEY are the ones that deserve every compensation, not the adults, and those that held them down should be appropriately punished - ignorance is no excuse for doing that, and I know many of them severely regret it now. Again the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Coercion and pressure yes and this is what needs to be accounted for an paid for with strong punishment and consequences not just for the order givers who are actually less guilty than the order followers.
There is an excellent lecture by Mark Passio on this very issue of freedom, responsibility and the order followers being MORE guilty.
Maybe 50% were willing and 50% were less willing or very much opposed, but not enough opposed to sit tight, miss saying good bye to loved ones, cut off from family for over a year, out of work, but they could have paid the price so it was a choice albeit not a fair one as I said those who coerced and bullied are guilty as are those who enabled it all - the weak order followers who injected it.
As to the poor children who had weak (and/or misinformed) parents they are of course innocent and paying the price for that. Most will want to keep passing the blame up the chain but all are guilty. I myself was guilty for not physically intervening to protect two young child from a PCR swap up the nose making them bleed, held down by three fefails, and I too made that awful choice on the probability of being imprisoned for violence when I was almost home having had to wait over a year to be reunited with family, both parents had meantime died slowly (not from coronavirus but cancers) and I could not be there as I was not allowed to move.
It was my choice to be selfish with the end result to reunite with what was left of my family rather than intervene in another random family in front of me in the queue, and I had to live with it. I later that day found the children, it was traumatic for them, they survived it. That was just one of the awful PCR "swaps" (actually it is child rape) had it been an injection I don't know if I could have restrained myself. I keep myself away from people for these reasons, the insanity and weakness is more than depressing. I don't see many people awake, as usual, it is mostly caring about something that happened to them directly.
I am a new Australian, arrived 1988 and learned about the history etc. I authentically believed about reconciliation for a long time. The reconciliation movement has been stolen by the hard political left and reoriented into black nationalism rather than genuine reconciliation. Guilt is being actively stoked to advance political objectives rather than any real forgiveness offered.
Relatedly, I have never laughed so much at the MSM crying when the Muslims voted NO as a block to gay marriage. "How could they do this when we supported them" the woke cried.
Bro read the room. (See: France).
Did you see the cases where people were putting up posters that simply said, "Islam is right about women"?
eg: https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/09/26/the-genius-of-the-islam-is-right-about-women-stunt/
Lefties went a bit troppo haha
Nobody will like this, but the way I see it, true reconciliation is impossible. Why?
Because the way the original people of this country see the land & their connection to it, is totally opposite to the way the white settlers see the land. It is really 2 massively different worldviews.
Any attempts at reconciliation by those in power is, at best, lip service. It will be a continuation of the same.
However, having said that, there are solutions possible going forward, but the majority of people will definitely not like them.
Ah yes, the noble savage. The aboriginals also saw women and children differently but I can't say more. We don't have free speech.
Go on. I like solutions and to be challenged.
The first & probably the most important solution would be to stop poisoning the land, people, wildlife, atmosphere & water. The only way to do that, in my view, is if enough people realise that all of the above are & have been deliberately poisoned by many different methods by the government & the major corporations. This includes the gene editing of living organisms.
The second is to realise that materialism & consumption is a dangerous path. This worldview has been conducive to governments & corporations & it has been promulgated endlessly through media & education. By materialism I also mean the idea that the physical explains everything. The spiritual & the understanding that we & the world are a part of a much larger unseen world or worlds should be encouraged & not suppressed.
The original peoples knew this well, but our western culture has superimposed worldviews like the commenter "Stoichastic"'s below. A classic example of misinformation that associates lack of technological advancement with squalor. What about the pristine environment the original peoples enjoyed & nurtured & managed pre settlement? Think about the fact that a culture that has no written language (as we know it) may in fact encourage brain use of memory in keeping stories alive through the oral tradition. Written language could be seen as a double edged sword.
There are many other points I could make, but I'll say this one would be the hardest for people to stomach:
The majority of people who came to this land as settlers or immigrants or refugees, in my experience of talking to the elderly, did NOT want to come here. They left behind family, friends & their homeland. Why? Usually wars/conflict & the misery & poverty induced. Note that most of these conflicts are, I believe, manufactured specifically to destroy & disperse people, so that they become tools of the so called elite, moving to other countries in order to be used as labor. I can tell you something interesting. All these elders I talk to think they came here & built this country. They think "Australia" is a great country. But what if they were really brought here to "destroy" the country while thinking they were doing the opposite. Because that is what has happened from the original peoples point of view. So, in my view, a slow repatriation, over generations (if there are any to come if & when the current eugenics program expires) back to the homelands, for those who wish it.
If one insists on so called technological solutions, then free energy devices need to be unsuppressed, plasttic eating bacteria need to be bred (not genetically engineered), hemp should probably be used for everything plastic/petrochemical based), cannabis should be used for healing (rick simpson oil in particular), other healing modalities need to be unsuppressed too. Let healers heal without fear of punishment, vaccines should never be mandated (they are poison, ALL of them, weakening people, it's the weaponisation of homeopathic principles), any artificial weather manipulation needs to be halted.
Basically far too many others to list, but technology could be used carefully & wisely, but currently it is being weaponised against humans.
"A classic example of misinformation that associates lack of technological advancement with squalor."
Incorrect. Lack of technological advancement is not associated with squalor.
What is associated with squalor:
* sitting in the dirt
* eating with your fingers
* eating witchetty grubs raw
* kids walking around naked
* flies constantly walking all over your face
* "medicine" man healers
* no running water
* no sanitation
* no desire to improve yourself
You say "the pristine environment the original peoples enjoyed & nurtured & managed" based on what? On people telling you they managed it?
Seriously?
They can't write anything down and out of nowhere, there's a people who can communicate verbally without losing any signal integrity? Seriously?
Ever played Chinese whispers before? Methinks you have drunk the koolaid and not actually tried to replicate what you believe happened here.
Oh good grief "free energy devices need to be unsuppressed".
No wonder you believe Aboriginals, of all the people that ever lived on the planet, could escape the reality of entropy in verbal communication. You're a believer in fantasy and a denier of physics.
Never mind.
What is your understanding of pre-settlement life on this continent? Where or from whom did you learn it from? I am asking this in the spirit of curiosity, not aggressively.
Have you read Elkin's Aboriginal Men Of High Degree? What about Jan Roberts' From Massacred to Mining? Pascoe's Dark Emu (despite the aggressive attempts to deligitimize Pascoe since the books publication) or Gammage's The Biggest Estate on Earth? What about the recent Thames & Hudson issues of several small books like Plants, Country, Astronomy detailing the knowledge within first nations people?
As for the rest of your post, it is typical of so called skeptics, who in reality are anything but.
No curiosity? Miles Mathis has rewritten "physics" by going back (even to Euclid) & correcting underlying assumptions. His "model" of how the universe works fills in many of the gaps of modern establishment physics.
Patrick Kelly's free energy site lists many small projects that can supply "free energy".
If you are waiting for the mainstream to spoon feed you true information & knowledge I'm afraid it isn't going to happen. They are just leading mankind down the wrong path, & people like yourself don't realise it.
What a beautiful exposition of great thought and truth, refreshing to read among the noise which is easy to filter out and helps such gems to stand out in comparison :-)
An easy solution to the immigration problem -- and it is a huge problem, not just in the past but ongoing, whereby many migrate to Australia so that they can abuse people and get away with it not only those who do migrate for reasons you mentioned such as escaping war, injustice... and as I can testify to with many witnesses horribly destroyed by life in Australia actually went from the frying pan into the fire...
is if Originals were in charge of immigration. They'd do interviews and ask WHY do you wish to come to Australia? What will you contribute to society? What do you know of its history and problems?
At the very least. Unlike the current situation where no interview takes place, only DNA-mining, and all that is required is a fat bank account.
Think of the police force (policy enforcers). If they were really about the safety and protection of good citizens, they'd have a psychological exam that is not, like the current one, designed to weed out empathetic people and pass through order-followers, but to weed out psychopaths and only pass through good character and moral fibre.
It's no mystery that the government and its power structures, based on falsehood and ulterior objectives as you said to destroy life in its optimum form, is the enemy thus of reality based people.
What is the optimum form of life on this planet? It would entail living on the land and sea, in harmony with the land, and while there would be bartering and exchanges and trade there would not be middle men, banks, digital/paper/fiat money, supermarkets, hoarding, lawyers, police, mercenaries (state soldiers), modified and controlled foods and too-high technology, everything would be under the control and balance of the individual, family, tribe...
and the fact that the Originals managed to do this for countless thousands of generations, while the immigrants could not do it even for a single generation but yet feel superior and entitled to make up nonsense about such an amazing people, culture and long history, says it all.
Empty vessels make loud noises.
Yes, well said.
Not one of us alive now are responsible. Do the Germans hand over some of their land and money to the Jews every year? It is such a stupid argument. We treat the aborigines today like zoo animals. Maybe if we start treating them as human beings just like us their communities would be more likely to thrive. None of us are directly responsible for what happened and the events should be seen in the historical context of what was a much more violent and brutal era.
But I cannot workout why we do nothing about the abuse so many aboriginal children face in their own community now in 2023. Until we are brave enough to tackle that issue there is little hope to improve the wellbeing of those in aboriginal townships and for that fact we are all guilty. The voice will not make the slightest bit of difference.
Rebekah, the stolen generation has been debunked by government enquiries. Children were taken because of abuse in each home, not because of a systematic program.
I had a teacher who was one of that generation. He was completely traumatised and broken from his experience. He told us stories you shouldn't tell children, then had a breakdown and never returned. The trauma (I know that word is overused, but I mean it in its fullness here) was visceral. Whatever happened to him, it was very bad.
I had a similar experience actually (not me but listening to a story). As you say, whatever happened, it was bad. I don't think there were any winners. Similar to the kids who came from England to the care homes.
Did you see Geoffrey Blainey's article in The Australian? It was amazing.
Can you link for me?
It's behind a paywall, so if I link it's just some crazy long nonsense. This should help.
Article title: "Before voice vote, let's get the facts in order.'
Author: Geoffrey Blainey
Venue: The Australian
Section: Inquirer
Edit: let me know if you want me to get it for you and I can see what I can do.
Indeed, how can they be involved in such a process when they know nothing about it, so to speak. This is why the liberal female Guardian-reading do-gooder is paving the road to hell even if not with wholly good intentions. What was the R (symbol an R from a branding iron as you would brand cattle and slaves with) campaign and who funded it? And of course the real one that all thinking and caring Origines that I spoke with about all this supported: SOVEREIGNTY, was not on the table and never promoted. I say it is a good thing the Originals are not in the Constitution and have (until some traitors recently) not been in Parliament. Another observation: culture. If you take ANY culture in the world aside from those on a small island off India that have no contact with non-civilisation, they always have at least some things in common culturally speaking. Not so between the Anglo-Saxon (generally non-culture, another big discussion area) and the Originals. They have no common values that overlap when it comes to the majority of things. And I speak of the Originals who keep to their culture and the average Aussie. Hence the only solution would be a compromise such as a 7th state as proposed by some, and people's power direct democracy where each community (and I don't mean only two, there could be thousands of communities of all types) takes their own power and responsibility for decisions and implementing them, in short, a Panarchy.
I have mixed heritage including convict and aborigine (1/16th), I wonder if I get to keep that 1/16th of my proposed reparations?
What a conundrum you are. You'll need two bank accounts so one part of you can pay the other.
I am really tired of being told that I have to be guilty of past sins not even perpetrated by my ancestors and even if they were then I am still not responsible for the sins of others and the past. I am only responsible for myself and my sins before God.
As far as I can see aboriginals - not First Nations- have exactly the same opportunities as the rest of us but the activists want to keep sone aboriginals as victims. It suits their narrative. Billions are spent obviously badly so how is that our fault?
The language, style and syntax doesn't seem to match that of someone who was educated in Germany and has English as a second language. However, that's another argument. I know nothing of the NZ experience so cannot comment on that, but I do know about the experiences here in my country. Firstly my Aboriginal mate absolutely hates the term first nation's and rebukes anyone who uses it. It's bloody Canadian, do I look like an Indian? he says. Secondly, the intentions of Phillip and subsequent Governors was to peacefully settle the land. The highlighted "massacres" were all the consequences of atrocities that isolated and defenceless settlers and explorers suffered. Those facts are well documented. Rodney Liddells paper, Cape York Savage Frontier, details multiple events that were unprovoked attacks and massacres of shipwrecked seamen and explorers in North Queensland. The premise by the author that there was 200+ years of abuse is entirely unfounded. Just another propagation of the lies that even Minister Birney has been found to lie about. The author is the problem because he cherry picks his truths. He misidentified some sort of collective guilt that this country has towards the disparit Aboriginal population. We have no guilt. Not one person I know living today was responsible for any of this. Yet here we are as a country pouring billions in to just 3% of our population because they have been indoctrinated that they are victims, that they deserve everything and the taxpayers owe owe owe.
As noted in the intro, this text has been edited by me. You can read Markus’s original, unedited comments in the link via the intro.
It used to be "traditional caretakers", and now it's "traditional owners". Big difference.
Bottom line: who is responsible for the problem, and who does the "solution" affect?
Like climate policy, it's the elites, the politicians and big business who are responsible for any alleged issues.
Like climate policy, it's you and me, the plebs, who will be directly affected. Not the elites, politicians or big business.
For that reason, I'm out.
As I commented on Mark's original comment, there are 2 issues being confused in the Voice debate:
1) why do we need to change the Australian Constitution in order to help the indigenous people?
2) the issue of reparations/assistance/healing, in light of the fact that their cultures, their social structure, and their way of life was pretty much destroyed by the European settlers/invaders.
The mainstream narrative is that if you don't agree with this proposed change to our Constitution then you are a racist and generally mean and selfist person - which is patently not true.
The issue of reparations has not been overtly mentioned - because if it were, there would be an overwhelming "NO" from the referendum.
There are all sorts of sinister possibilities inherent in what is being proposed by the Voice advocates (and the fact that they dismiss all questions about details of implementation, etc is even more sinister, IMO). Meanwhile, all those sanctimonious Voice advocates are silent about issues such as the destruction of the traditional lands of the Wangan & Jagalingou people by Adani, in northwest Queensland.
https://wanganjagalingou.com.au/
And please note, the Qld Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk sold out and did nothing to limit the Adani project, because jobs. And votes.
There has been a heap of money poured into indigenous projects, most of it disappearing into the pockets of the people running them (as happened with ATSIC - an organisation set up with similar good intentions, maybe better intentions in fact, run by indigenous people for the benefit of Aborginal and Torres Strait Islander people).
I'm in no way denying that these people have suffered terribly, and their current predicament is the result of systematic abuse and destruction of their culture. But what to do about it?
Nothing I have heard about the proposed Voice leads me to believe that it will constructively address these issues, and the fact that people like Jacinta Price are against it is enough for me.
Why do you believe in systematic abuse and destruction of their culture? Do you have evidence outside of abc/sbs?
The stolen generation was an abc myth, since debunked. Early settlers documented the ways of the aboriginals and their treatment of women and children and it was quite unbelievable (not in a good way). The books are on archive.org.
Yes, I do have evidence. I've worked with aboriginal Australians both as colleagues and as clients, and heard stories that are about understanding and healing, not continuing the victim game.
And no, I am not going to try to convince you, because I've learned from the past 3 years not to waste my energy trying to convince someone whose mind is already made up.
However, I agree with you that we shouldn't be uncritically glorifying the customs and ways of life of aboriginal people.
And that is an extremely patronising comment.
Approximately 55% of the Australian landmass is now in Aboriginal hands and the government spends ~$ 39 billion on indigenous affairs every year. How much more do the activists want. To change our constitution is unwarranted. A NO from me.
Could you link me
To where those numbers come from?
If the voice was about true reconciliation and restoration it would be widely supported but many see through it...there is literally nothing we can trust from our governments these days be it covid, climate chains, or this - its always an emotive argument built on false unbalance narratives .....sad but the writer mentions Marxism many times for good reason......I know many indigenous Christians who do not want the voice and realise true reconciliation is a joint process of lifting up one another together...there is still much to be done for sure but I doubt the voice will do it......... I recently visited Haast Bluff NT where the local indigenous community have overseen the building of a huge cross - they are amazing people but still caught in a cultural vortex that the land they live on cannot provide the income and jobs to sustain them - it isn't any one person fault, it simply the rainfall.....Haast Bluff community commemorate 4 Lutheran evangelists who travelled the area in 1920s and brought the gospel to them - they no longer live in fear of payback when someone does wrong - but that is not the culture of many communities still today -
My great grandfather on one side, left Ireland to come here because the potato famine guttered his business in Ireland 1852.. he was an economic refugee like so many who have come more recently....I also have one ancestor who was on the First Fleet - and British heritage and a free man- he was barely 20 when he arrived and grew up served in the courts with Samuel Marsden - but how many were sent there as unwilling convicts - victims themselves? .....Irish and British have a tortured history too but my blood has both ... there is never one group who are all bad - look at the freedom fighter today they who want good, and live side by side with those who are deceived and those who intentionally want tyranny...... and there in lies the solution seek justice mercy for all but not preference and injustice...we have all the constitutional facilities to do that..
I watched the Last Daughter last week - it is so compelling and so sad but it is also a true story of love and reconciliation. I know many white who were adopted and there mothers often forced to give up children to adoption by social pressures ( or those forced to abort) back then and then we see the the child sex trade to day that the Sound of Freedom that is just released in the USA has highlighted - tyranny and evil know no borders and as I watched the Last Daughter I could not help think of how many tragedies our government have perpetrated on people and still do ......the voice that this parliament needs to hear is the voice of the Holy Spirit none other .....
Good comment. 'Secret men's business' is quite the...legacy...
“one of them the famous Tāme Iti, who was also a Māori artist. He later would become an international celebrity flown around the world by wealthy supporters.”
This tells you a lot about most so called activists. Supported & encouraged by wealthy donors, because it suits them.
“A few years later, the NZ government decided to fully compensate and settle all historical grievances with Māori for good. White New Zealanders were very wary and anxious about it at the time. Basically, over a period of about 20 years, every iwi (tribe) could lodge a claim of what was stolen from them, dating back to the first white people arriving. They were all compensated. It cost billions of dollars.”
Similar to compensation schemes or legislation in Australia like Mabo/Native Title, they are not what they appear to be. A trojan horse of sorts, assimilating & destroying the original peoples customs & traditions whilst appearing to be fair.
“and a new proud, confident, and well-educated Māori generation prospered, who see themselves as equal and respected and part of a united New Zealand.”
Loss of knowledge & wisdom of original peoples, educated to a worldview endorsed by UN SDG, WEF & others.
“But what is abundantly clear is that the situation can't be compared to the Māori situation. The history and character of the two peoples are vastly different.”
It can, the goal of both governments is the same. Control, access to resources for corporations.
“trickery and deceit”
Yes, still ongoing. There are many forms. Wolves in sheeps clothing.
He turned up at my door begging for money. Told him politely to fck off!
Yup … this is a compelling read and likely indicative of the thoughts and emotions of the majority of the country regardless of ethnic background. How about treating aboriginal people as equals and not as pets or a permanent victim class perpetually deserving of white man’s guilt and assistance? How about not abusing the bigotry of low expectations, of obliging or encouraging the notion of personal responsibility and/or expecting the most basic of participation to modern standards of living typical of our extremely diverse cultural tapestry?
There is a common enemy of all Australians, white and brown, and that is Homo Consensus, the affluent, liberal, white, gullible majority, who gleefully sign up to every bloody “cause” in the name of doing the right thing, but who lack the basic common sense and pragmatism that should inform their decision-making.
Why would you assume that a German represents most NZers? Certainly not South Islanders. I actually had no idea about the feeling of menace and physical threat white people feel in the North island. No wonder he's so happy to appease Maori demands. How many "final" rounds of reparations does it make now?
I believe Greg_in_Oz said “not as pets” - enlighten me if I’ve interpreted it incorrectly - thanks 🙏
Lol … I think “deleted” may have been looking for a daft argument
Not at all.
You write, "compelling reading indicative of most Aussies" about an article where someone writes "PAY THEM MONEY it makes it all better".
As an Aussie I completely disagree. Not compelling at all. Bullshit even.
Here's a quote from the article:
"However, the basic principle of decency still applies. It wasn't right how First Nations people were treated for centuries. And acknowledgment and reparations do go a long way to normalise the relationship, as shown in NZ. It is not good for modern-day Australians to live with this guilt.
How to undo this? I honestly don't know. Throw money at them? Give the land back? I believe some of that has to happen. The value lies not so much in the riches but in the sacrifice. If it hurts the white Australians it means something. It has to hurt. And it is still a tiny fraction of the hurt that was dished out over centuries."
Giving the land back and paying them money is his "solution" that you find a "compelling read", apparently.
Then contradict yourself by writing "don't treat them as pets / victims", which is exactly what needs to happen to justify "PAY THEM MONEY to make it all better".
But who is treating them as pets? Not me. Are you? And if you are, why? And if you aren't, then who is?
Interesting that you should suggest that the problem in NZ was 'Marxist Labour Party' upsetting the scene, and then to imply that 'Europeans should give until it hurts' in Australia. You seem to have an errant view of what Marxism actually is, because that's the bowels of it. i.e. Living for others for inexplicable or unqualified reasons, whether rationalised or not. It is fascism as well. It is any form of collectivism, and the historical foundations for Maori are collectivist. The exception is your aspirational friends who really identify with Europeans.
Thank you Rebecca for touching this difficult and painful topic and starting a honest conversation about it. People feel safe here to express their views from different perspectives in a respectful way which is rare these days. I tried to cross-post it but couldn't manage. Is it enabled for your posts?
Hi Markus, I agree, I really appreciate the quality of discussion on this platform. Strange, I checked and the cross-post function is enabled on this post...
Wow Rebekah, you sure pick your topics. Best thread of comments yet. Informative, reasoned, instructive. I get an education here. Bonus.
I agree, such good comments!
Thanks for checking. I try again later.
I am not sure if incuding Aboriginals in the constitution will actually make any material difference to the plight of the Aboriginal people. But that is what we should do - work out what would help because many of them are such terribly broken people. It would be great to have an Australian success story like that of New Zealand's.
That's not the purpose of the voice. Do you honestly think politicians care about the welfare of anyone outside of their own families? This is about Blackrock acquiring land in Australia. A large proportion of land in NZ is now owned by foreign companies. That's Australia's future under the voice.
Quite.
I wish people could grasp these crucial points:
1. The government don't give a sh*t about you. They do not care if you live or die. In some cases they may prefer the latter, it may be more convenient for them.
2. Corporations *most certainly* don't give a sh*t about you. In fact the only thing that stops them actually harming or killing people for profit is the courts. The check on Moral Hazard is Financial Hazard — the risk of being sued into oblivion, if they go too far in their ravenous pursuit of money.
Work backwards from there, incorporating these two truths into all your decision making, and you'll be much better off.
Regarding point 2, now the govt & corporations are starting to merge (as per the WEF and UN plans for a world built around 'Public / Private Partnerships' ...aka the merger of State and Private Capital... aka a dictionary definition of fascism). That is extremely dangerous because it removes the financial hazard mechanism that we rely on to keep some of the worst corporate behaviour in check.
Note what happened in a recent example — the Covid vaccines. Govt had closed door meetings with manufacturer lobbyists (or people such as Gates), and then signed contracts placing bulk orders, handing over billions to the drug makers, and also giving them full liability from legal consequences for any harms. At that point, what was the business incentive for making a safe product? ...there wasn't one. The only remaining incentive was to be the first to market, the first to deliver on the contract, and try for another payday. As a result of that, we saw astonishing waste, unprecedented levels of coercion, and these appear to be very clearly the most *unsafe* vaccines ever mass administered to the public. None of that should be surprising; we removed the mechanisms that act as safety valves for the public, and instead operated under a fascist model. So going forward, I would argue that we need to be much, much more vigilant about whatever govt or corporations are pushing, as they're actively removing checks and balances.
It is not successful. Poor Māori are still poor.
whammo. totally nailed my feelings